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I've been musing on this subject, not for the first time, since my post last night about wanna be X writers. When is plagiarism not plagiarism or rather when is it acceptable to recycle the ideas of others in writing and at what point do you cross the line from being influenced by to ripping off?
Plagiarism - true plagiarism as I think of it - is easy to define:
a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own.
So, it's easy to identify where someone, within the fanfiction world, has taken someone else's words and presented them as their own. As an archivist I've had the unpleasant task of dealing with this kind of plagiarist, one who took paragraphs and sentences from a variety of online works, changed the names, cobbled it together and posted it as her own. It's pretty clear that this was a) plagiarism and b) intentional, no matter how the author tried to explain it away. (As it turned out, even the 'author' was a fabrication, someone who 'died' on being confronted with the evidence that I drew together and yet, when I discovered how to track IP addresses I also discovered that they didn't exist - at least not where they said they did, and the 'friend' who reported the 'death' to me also, strangely enough, had the same ISP and location.)
But I digress. What I'm really interested in is the second part of that definition:
taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own
So, given that definition - taking someone's ideas as if they were your own - at what point does the spread of fanon become plagiarism? At what point does Daniel in jammies, or Jack's parents cooing over Daniel and their son's new discovered 'gayness' stop being a matter of influence of a well known and oft imitated writer and cross that line from imitation to stealing? I should be clear that I'm not suggesting in any way, shape or form that the writer of the story that started these musings is a plagiarist - they just had the unfortunate luck to be the story that crystallised my thoughts. In the fanfiction world at least, I tend to apply the first definition of plagiarism, the one concerning use of words, and ignore the second. Someone famous and pithy once said that there are only 10 basic plot ideas and all stories are based, to a certain extent, on one of them. I wish I could remember who to attribute that to. I think that's true to a certain extent, and, when writing fanfiction, we're even further constrained in that we're all working from the same canonical base. There may be 10 basic plots, but probably an infinite number of ways of presenting those plots through original characters. When you're limited to presenting it through a set number of characters who have their own defined personality quirks that pool of ideas becomes much smaller. That doesn't mean, however, that it's impossible to produce fresh and original works, but if my Daniel is like X's Daniel how much of that is due to us interpreting Daniel in the same way from canon and how much is that due to us subconsciously picking up trends from other writers, including each other?
The fandom world is a small one. No one can say with hand on heart that they haven't been influenced, whether good or bad, by another fanfiction writer - even if that influence is negative. With Words, for example, I'm very clear that one of the reasons I wrote it was because I had real problems with the characterisation of both Daniel and Jack in some of the stories I'd read with a similar premise. However, I also don't think that anyone could say that Words was plagiarised, even in the second sense of the word. I may have been 'inspired' to write the story but that's because one of the reasons I write fanfiction is to investigate the things I know will never be explored in canon, and now it appears that I will also write fanfiction to explore the things I don't believe have been explored in other fanfiction stories either, at least not the way I wanted them explored. But the premise behind Words was nothing new - I didn't take it from one author's stories; it's a cliched plot device, used in a multitude of fandoms, and my problem was not with the idea behind it but the execution.
So no one is immune to that kind of influence, certainly not me. If we were immune we wouldn't be subject to fanon. In fact, if we were immune we wouldn't be writing fanfiction.
But at what point does that unconscious influence and writing it into your own stories stop being the proliferation of fanon and becomes something else? And at what point should or does an author start to take offence?
I think a lot of writers see similarities between their stories and others. As writers we tend to read with both the intention of being entertained and to learn from others. Maybe we don't set out to consciously mimic the style of others, but we do pick up tips and tricks from one another, at least if we write with any attempt at improving. But at what point does that 'seeing similarities' become 'seeing plagiarism'? And at what point do those similarities cross the line? I suspect that depends on the author who sees the similarities in the first place. As an archivist I've received complaints from an author about plagiarism of her stories by X when neither I, or anyone else, could see any similarity. I suspect that's due to a combination of touchiness about your own work anyway and a basic personality conflict, even if the accusation wasn't meant as malicious. So was she right to make a big deal of it? With my archivist hat on my answer is an unequivocal 'no'. With my author hat on, I'm not so sure.
You see, I've not been immune from being subject to 'plagiarism' in its myriad forms myself (and I use the quotation marks deliberately). I've had sentences from my stories appear in stories by others, including our later unmasked plagiarist. That actually lead me to second guess myself and wonder whether if in that case I had gone with my temporary pissed offness and made an issue about it rather than simply getting pissed for 30 seconds then deciding that it wasn't worth bothering about would have nipped the problem in the bud. Given that our plagiarist wasn't 'real' I suspect not. In other cases I've had people mail me and say 'this is slightly similar to X of yours, do you mind?' In those cases the answer is 'no'. In fact, I've been obscurely flattered. I suspect that it's a question not only of 'intent', as in delibereately recycling someone else's ideas and words without considering any questions of morality, but also of respect. The very fact of acknowledging the source, of considering the feelings of the author in question, has to have an influence on how the similarities are perceived. Politeness and consideration act as the oil on the wheels of the fandom machine.
A case in point - I've also had the idea from one of my PWPs recycled into someone else's story, handed to me with a rather cryptic 'you're going to like this one'. When I got to that scene, I wondered whether this was what I was supposed to like? What if it wasn't? What if I mentioned it and the author got all sniffy about it? As it was, when I rather tentatively mentioned 'I notice that you had this...' I got a 'Yes, I knew you'd like it! It's a homage.' I told myself I shouldn't get pissy about it, that it was a homage, that I should be flattered and that if I was really that bothered I should have pursued it even though I knew it would get unpleasant.
And then the story was posted with no mention of 'homage'.
The problem, of course, was the lack of 'respect'. Instead of being asked if I minded I was placed in the position of supplicant. I had to read it, and thought I was reading it because the author thought I would enjoy it. Coming across the scene in question was therefore an unpleasant surprise, hence all of the angsting on my part about whether to raise it at all. And my first, tentative attempt to raise the issue was dismissed which lead me to dropping the subject while feeling obscurely resentful about it. It's just a PWP, I told myself. It shouldn't matter. But, of course, it did.
Of course, the truth of the matter is that if I'm going to be a coward about these things, I should have to live with the consequences. I strongly suspect, as well, that I'm overreacting and being touchy. Again, there was no malice in it - it was just thoughtlessness.
So, is that all this recycling of ideas are? Simple thoughtlessness on the part of the author, or even an unawareness of the fact that they are recycling? A bleeding of ideas from one author to another, consciously or not? And given that we're writing fanfiction, and therefore recycling ideas and characters anyway does anyone have the right to get upset? Be pissy? Do we have any right whatsoever to anything other than our words and screw the idea of 'plagiarisim of ideas'?
In all of my musings, I haven't come to a conclusion on that one. One thing I have noticed, however, is that the comfort level for other writers and other fandoms seems to vary considerably. In some fandoms it seems to me that nothing is thought of writing a sequel to someone's work without asking whereas in others work is scoured for the slightest similarity and then rocks are thrown. I think if nothing else this ramble has shown me that I fall somewhere in the middle. I've realised that for me personally my comfort level is only messed with when it's an obvious reference to someone's work rather than vague, and for me personally that means specific ideas and images that are obviously inspired by a work rather than superficial similarities - I'm not claiming everyone has the same measure, but then that's part of the problem, isn't it - and that inspiration doesn't even merit the basic respect of an acknowledgement. I don't need to give 'permission' but I would like to know about it. And that's the route I've adopted as an archivist. It's called 'politeness' in my book. As an archivist it's how I square writing fanfiction at all with showing other writers at least the same respect shown the writers of the show I archive for, in acknowledging the source. On a personal level, and again I'm emphasising this is my personal comfort zone and I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way, I'd ask first probably. But, then, hell, I'm the person who acknowledged the author who first included 'red speedos' in New Pros fic even though the idea came up in chat when a lot of us were there so I probably err on the side of caution. And one thing I don't want to see is disclaimers coming out of the wazoo. As I've said, I think some element of cross pollination of ideas is inevitable within a fandom community. We feed off each other almost as much as we feed off the show, or we wouldn't be in these communities.
But I think that still leaves the basic question unresolved. When is 'plagiarism' not?
[Edit: I should also clarify that the reason I think more 'courtesy' as it were is owed to fanfiction authors than, say the owners of the show, is that because I'm not in the habit of sending my stories out to places where they could, to my knowledge, end up in the inboxes of the Powers that Be. Not saying it couldn't happen, of course, but that's one of the reasons I personally would ask if I felt I'd crossed the line. There's a big difference between being a writer on a show and knowing that fanfiction exists and being on a mailing list, opening up a story by someone else and seeing an idea of yours staring you right in the face. That's just my opinion, of course, but it's how I live with myself :)]
Plagiarism - true plagiarism as I think of it - is easy to define:
a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own.
So, it's easy to identify where someone, within the fanfiction world, has taken someone else's words and presented them as their own. As an archivist I've had the unpleasant task of dealing with this kind of plagiarist, one who took paragraphs and sentences from a variety of online works, changed the names, cobbled it together and posted it as her own. It's pretty clear that this was a) plagiarism and b) intentional, no matter how the author tried to explain it away. (As it turned out, even the 'author' was a fabrication, someone who 'died' on being confronted with the evidence that I drew together and yet, when I discovered how to track IP addresses I also discovered that they didn't exist - at least not where they said they did, and the 'friend' who reported the 'death' to me also, strangely enough, had the same ISP and location.)
But I digress. What I'm really interested in is the second part of that definition:
taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own
So, given that definition - taking someone's ideas as if they were your own - at what point does the spread of fanon become plagiarism? At what point does Daniel in jammies, or Jack's parents cooing over Daniel and their son's new discovered 'gayness' stop being a matter of influence of a well known and oft imitated writer and cross that line from imitation to stealing? I should be clear that I'm not suggesting in any way, shape or form that the writer of the story that started these musings is a plagiarist - they just had the unfortunate luck to be the story that crystallised my thoughts. In the fanfiction world at least, I tend to apply the first definition of plagiarism, the one concerning use of words, and ignore the second. Someone famous and pithy once said that there are only 10 basic plot ideas and all stories are based, to a certain extent, on one of them. I wish I could remember who to attribute that to. I think that's true to a certain extent, and, when writing fanfiction, we're even further constrained in that we're all working from the same canonical base. There may be 10 basic plots, but probably an infinite number of ways of presenting those plots through original characters. When you're limited to presenting it through a set number of characters who have their own defined personality quirks that pool of ideas becomes much smaller. That doesn't mean, however, that it's impossible to produce fresh and original works, but if my Daniel is like X's Daniel how much of that is due to us interpreting Daniel in the same way from canon and how much is that due to us subconsciously picking up trends from other writers, including each other?
The fandom world is a small one. No one can say with hand on heart that they haven't been influenced, whether good or bad, by another fanfiction writer - even if that influence is negative. With Words, for example, I'm very clear that one of the reasons I wrote it was because I had real problems with the characterisation of both Daniel and Jack in some of the stories I'd read with a similar premise. However, I also don't think that anyone could say that Words was plagiarised, even in the second sense of the word. I may have been 'inspired' to write the story but that's because one of the reasons I write fanfiction is to investigate the things I know will never be explored in canon, and now it appears that I will also write fanfiction to explore the things I don't believe have been explored in other fanfiction stories either, at least not the way I wanted them explored. But the premise behind Words was nothing new - I didn't take it from one author's stories; it's a cliched plot device, used in a multitude of fandoms, and my problem was not with the idea behind it but the execution.
So no one is immune to that kind of influence, certainly not me. If we were immune we wouldn't be subject to fanon. In fact, if we were immune we wouldn't be writing fanfiction.
But at what point does that unconscious influence and writing it into your own stories stop being the proliferation of fanon and becomes something else? And at what point should or does an author start to take offence?
I think a lot of writers see similarities between their stories and others. As writers we tend to read with both the intention of being entertained and to learn from others. Maybe we don't set out to consciously mimic the style of others, but we do pick up tips and tricks from one another, at least if we write with any attempt at improving. But at what point does that 'seeing similarities' become 'seeing plagiarism'? And at what point do those similarities cross the line? I suspect that depends on the author who sees the similarities in the first place. As an archivist I've received complaints from an author about plagiarism of her stories by X when neither I, or anyone else, could see any similarity. I suspect that's due to a combination of touchiness about your own work anyway and a basic personality conflict, even if the accusation wasn't meant as malicious. So was she right to make a big deal of it? With my archivist hat on my answer is an unequivocal 'no'. With my author hat on, I'm not so sure.
You see, I've not been immune from being subject to 'plagiarism' in its myriad forms myself (and I use the quotation marks deliberately). I've had sentences from my stories appear in stories by others, including our later unmasked plagiarist. That actually lead me to second guess myself and wonder whether if in that case I had gone with my temporary pissed offness and made an issue about it rather than simply getting pissed for 30 seconds then deciding that it wasn't worth bothering about would have nipped the problem in the bud. Given that our plagiarist wasn't 'real' I suspect not. In other cases I've had people mail me and say 'this is slightly similar to X of yours, do you mind?' In those cases the answer is 'no'. In fact, I've been obscurely flattered. I suspect that it's a question not only of 'intent', as in delibereately recycling someone else's ideas and words without considering any questions of morality, but also of respect. The very fact of acknowledging the source, of considering the feelings of the author in question, has to have an influence on how the similarities are perceived. Politeness and consideration act as the oil on the wheels of the fandom machine.
A case in point - I've also had the idea from one of my PWPs recycled into someone else's story, handed to me with a rather cryptic 'you're going to like this one'. When I got to that scene, I wondered whether this was what I was supposed to like? What if it wasn't? What if I mentioned it and the author got all sniffy about it? As it was, when I rather tentatively mentioned 'I notice that you had this...' I got a 'Yes, I knew you'd like it! It's a homage.' I told myself I shouldn't get pissy about it, that it was a homage, that I should be flattered and that if I was really that bothered I should have pursued it even though I knew it would get unpleasant.
And then the story was posted with no mention of 'homage'.
The problem, of course, was the lack of 'respect'. Instead of being asked if I minded I was placed in the position of supplicant. I had to read it, and thought I was reading it because the author thought I would enjoy it. Coming across the scene in question was therefore an unpleasant surprise, hence all of the angsting on my part about whether to raise it at all. And my first, tentative attempt to raise the issue was dismissed which lead me to dropping the subject while feeling obscurely resentful about it. It's just a PWP, I told myself. It shouldn't matter. But, of course, it did.
Of course, the truth of the matter is that if I'm going to be a coward about these things, I should have to live with the consequences. I strongly suspect, as well, that I'm overreacting and being touchy. Again, there was no malice in it - it was just thoughtlessness.
So, is that all this recycling of ideas are? Simple thoughtlessness on the part of the author, or even an unawareness of the fact that they are recycling? A bleeding of ideas from one author to another, consciously or not? And given that we're writing fanfiction, and therefore recycling ideas and characters anyway does anyone have the right to get upset? Be pissy? Do we have any right whatsoever to anything other than our words and screw the idea of 'plagiarisim of ideas'?
In all of my musings, I haven't come to a conclusion on that one. One thing I have noticed, however, is that the comfort level for other writers and other fandoms seems to vary considerably. In some fandoms it seems to me that nothing is thought of writing a sequel to someone's work without asking whereas in others work is scoured for the slightest similarity and then rocks are thrown. I think if nothing else this ramble has shown me that I fall somewhere in the middle. I've realised that for me personally my comfort level is only messed with when it's an obvious reference to someone's work rather than vague, and for me personally that means specific ideas and images that are obviously inspired by a work rather than superficial similarities - I'm not claiming everyone has the same measure, but then that's part of the problem, isn't it - and that inspiration doesn't even merit the basic respect of an acknowledgement. I don't need to give 'permission' but I would like to know about it. And that's the route I've adopted as an archivist. It's called 'politeness' in my book. As an archivist it's how I square writing fanfiction at all with showing other writers at least the same respect shown the writers of the show I archive for, in acknowledging the source. On a personal level, and again I'm emphasising this is my personal comfort zone and I don't expect everyone else to feel the same way, I'd ask first probably. But, then, hell, I'm the person who acknowledged the author who first included 'red speedos' in New Pros fic even though the idea came up in chat when a lot of us were there so I probably err on the side of caution. And one thing I don't want to see is disclaimers coming out of the wazoo. As I've said, I think some element of cross pollination of ideas is inevitable within a fandom community. We feed off each other almost as much as we feed off the show, or we wouldn't be in these communities.
But I think that still leaves the basic question unresolved. When is 'plagiarism' not?
[Edit: I should also clarify that the reason I think more 'courtesy' as it were is owed to fanfiction authors than, say the owners of the show, is that because I'm not in the habit of sending my stories out to places where they could, to my knowledge, end up in the inboxes of the Powers that Be. Not saying it couldn't happen, of course, but that's one of the reasons I personally would ask if I felt I'd crossed the line. There's a big difference between being a writer on a show and knowing that fanfiction exists and being on a mailing list, opening up a story by someone else and seeing an idea of yours staring you right in the face. That's just my opinion, of course, but it's how I live with myself :)]
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From:
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Funny how these subjects keep coming up - I was discussing this with the Due South crowd just before I went on holiday. After much discussion (same sort of things you've mentioned) we came to the conclusion that, with the exception of true plagiarism, this is another one of the pitfalls of sharing your literary efforts with anyone.
You do see patterns emerging between writers in the same fandom but, discarding my cynical head for the moment, I think this is one of the pleasures of sharing fanfiction. You all enjoy the same thing, you get a 'buzz' from each other's stories and that rubs off on each other. I do wonder if, in some of the bigger fandoms (using JAG as an example), this is why there are so many lists and archives - splinter groups of like minded people gravitate towards each other over time. Putting my cynical head back on, this of course only works if everyone plays fair.
Like you said, writers consciously or subsconciously get ideas / styles etc from each other. I know I do - more subsconciously with fanfiction, consciously with published fiction. Like you, even if I enjoy reading a book I still end up checking the grammar, thinking about the style etc etc :) Is it a compliment if someone mirrors your writing in some way? Probably - after all they must have liked it to use it. But that has to work both ways (the 'buzz' again :)) If you've sweated blood and tears over something and someone basically nicks it word for word and it's from laziness or whatever then it's only natural you'd want to kick butt :)
Of course I've never had the same problems with plagiarism that I know you have so that changes my view :) There have been one or two times I've thought 'Mmmm...I wonder...' but nothing I could put my finger on so I haven't pushed the point. And I only share my serious plot bunnies on the rare occasion and with only a few people (mainly cos I never know where they are bouncing to anyway and I'm generally anti-social like that :))so I haven't really had a problem there. But I agree - it can be annoying and blantant plagiarism is downright nasty. But where to draw the line? Oooh, now you're asking :)
From:
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I know ::g:: It's one of those pesky questions like 'how long is a piece of string'. What's acceptable does, as I said, seem to vary from fandom to fandom, which is another strange thing to me. Before I realised that I would have thought that the same kind of rules would apply because you would have had the same kind of communities, as though fanfiction writers, no matter what fandom, form some kind of homogenous community anyway.
Of course, that's simply not the case. So, no. I don't have any easy answers. I know what you say about it being one of the pitfalls of sharing your literary efforts with others, just like getting constructive criticism is, or the fact that you simply cannot please all of the people all of the time. So I do think the influence thing is inevitable, but there are so many pale imitations of Biblio's type of stories hitting the lists at the moment I wonder whether that's actually flattering to her ::g:: And don't know her at all to ask. How do you phrase that to a Big Name Fan? 'Scuse me, I don't know you but I just wanted to know if this author, that author and the other one just piss you off! ::g::
I also know what you mean about the 'hmm... I wonder' response. To be honest, in the case of where I was given the story and told the reference was a homage, if I hadn't been told that I probably would have had the same 'hmmm' reaction to it when it hit the list. As it was, it was being put on the spot like that and then not even acknowledged that kind of ticked me off a little, although my primary reaction wasn't anger but a kind of bewildered worry and a little hurt and quite a bit of self-anger as I honesty believed I was 'overreacting'. Self doubt and second guessing again - I wonder if that's a peculiarly English thing, to not make a fuss? ::shrug:: But like I said I still honestly believe it was simple thoughtlessness and oversight.
The problem also comes, I think, where we expect the same kind of morality I suppose, for want of any better word, from others as we exercise. Although I knew that plagiarism existed in other fandoms, actually have it occur in our fandom was devastating and I worried myself sick about it, especially as, as you know, there was the whole sob story thing going on which had already made me feel like a suspicious cow for not believing it all. And then to be proved right in my suspicions was not at all satisfying.
The idea, as well, that anyone could think that that kind of behaviour was acceptable... well, I'm still struggling with that concept.
But I like the synchronicity that you've been discussing this very issue in another fandom :) If nothing else it supports my assertion that there aren't really any new ideas, in fanfiction or otherwise, just new ways of presenting them :)
From:
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Self doubt and second guessing again - I wonder if that's a peculiarly English thing, to not make a fuss? ::shrug::
I used to be of the same mind ... but the older I get the more Bolshy I get :-). You should see me in a resturant if the food's not right ::g::.
I'm lucky in that I've never been in the position where I had to do anything about it, but I suspect what I'd do first is send the offending article to all my friends to see what they thought and then act on the group opinion (without dragging them in further unless absolutely necessary of course - always helps to have backup). I find that if someone else agrees with you it makes it a whole lot easier.
I'm afraid I have nothing intelligent to add, except that if it happens again the cavalry is waiting if you need us.
From:
no subject
But yes, I think the consensus so far seems to be that the interpretation of what constitutes as 'crossing over the line' is a very personal one, both as a writer and a reader, if that makes sense. Hard facts are one thing, where there is a clear case of copying words; a sense of grievance and hurt feelings are something else entirely when you're not talking about outright stealing of works and passing them off as your own but taking someone else's ideas and embellishing them in your own words. It's a question of degrees I think and the extent of leeway anyone gets will vary from person to person. I do think, however, that there has to be a lower cut-off point - where no one independent can see any similarity - and a higher cut-off point - where it's obvious to everyone that Work B was inspired by Work A. The problem is that there is such a huge expanse of ground between the two.
But thanks for the offer of the cavalry. :) I'll bear that in mind next time I feel like invading France ::g::
From: (Anonymous)
I semi-promised, so here's my 2 cents
I'm bad at recognizing influences unless they're very obvious or pointed out, so I can't contribute much. The only thing that comes to MY demented mind is a story (I *think* on Alpha Gate) that was specifically labeled as a homage or something like that to guess who's (yep-Biblio's) "A Quiet Victory. This would be fine, except the homage didn't live up to the source, and the source isn't my all-time favorite Biblio fic to begin with (long way from the bottom, but not the absolute top).
Taylor Serenil
From:
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firstly, people ripping my stuff off. I hadn't read this author until someone pointed out to myself and a few other authors that she was ripping scenes and concepts wholesale, rewriting (badly, IMHO) and passing them off as her own work.
did i call her on it? no. why not? because i wasn't 100% sure it was deliberate. There was that little voice that said 'maybe you just both read the scene the same way.' also, i didn't call her on it because of my experience on the other side of the line.
i received FB about the sensation series a while back. the FB basically said 'this is a complete ripoff of Scratch, go away you nasty nasty person'
now it was NEVER my intention to rip off Scratch. i love it and adore it, and will never get that good, so i wouldn't even dream of trying. but the doubt was now there in my head. i gave it around to other people, nervously waiting for their comments. they all said 'no, no, its not a ripoff' but i still wasn't completely sure.
thankfully, the FBer then replied and included 'Should We Fall' into this category. That story was written over two years ago, and was added to the series after it was complete because i thought it fit that timeline well...so unless i have some really useful skills i don't know about yet, i couldn't have ripped a story that hadn't been written yet.
but now i'm extra careful to check not only spelling, grammar and punctuation, but also influence.
there's nothing worse than being accused a hack.
but like i said, just my 2c ;)
From:
no subject
First of all ::hugs:: That must have been an horrific experience for you. And secondly, I don't see Sensation or Scratch to have anything in common other than being DanPaul fics. There are certain rules which apply in the Universe in which you're writing - don't ask, don't tell and the distance between the characters geographically which makes it of necessity a long distance romance to name just two - and tackling those rules in a logical manner does not equate to plagiarism. As far as I can see, it's simply a logical extension of both what we see in canon and also the kind of discussions that take place on DanPaul. Fanon, in other words.
I won't deny that Anais has an impact - her writing is so good how could it not have an impact? But having an impact, and not just on the DanPaul pairing but the Jack/Daniel pairing too, and being ripped off are two different things. Reading Anais' stories made me think about my own characterisation of Daniel. I don't see Daniel as quite as pissy as Anais' version (and don't think I portray him that way) but when I read it it was so different from many other portrayals in fanfiction I actually went back and looked at my works in progress (and I don't think I'd posted anything at that point) and asked myself 'Does my Daniel sound too weak? Too emotional? Am I at risk at writing the kind of Daniel I despise in the stories of others?'
However, I'd spit in the eye of anyone who accused me of ripping of Anais stories ::g:: She, among other writers in the fandom I admire, has had a positive influence on my stories in as much as they made me question my writing.
Secondly as far as I'm concerned this person wouldn't even had the right to send you that kind of mail even if you had been unconsciously influenced by Scratch. As far as I am concerned if such influences do appear then the best thing for anyone who spots them to do is to contact either the archivist or the author and advise them that they've seen similaries, and leave it in their hands rather than organising a lynch mob of one. Mob rule is never a good solution. As an archivist it's not a pleasant thing to have to deal with, but it is my responsibility to deal with it. Of course, if I'd read that in the small print I think I would have run away screaming before I'd got that far ::g:: And of course, as an archivist I'd like to think that I have a certain distance, even if others don't agree :) Besides, there are two of us and we're willing to wrangle in a neutral third party if needs be, going with the consensus opinion if needs be.
I strongly suspect that the mail you got was a flame cunningly disguised as moral outrage and it had the intended effect. It hit you where it hurt, made you doubt yourself. Even if she had genuinely believed that (and I can't believe that in as small a fandom as DanPaul someone else wouldn't have said the same thing if there had been anything in it) there are a hell of a lot nicer ways to ask the question.
As I've said in response to
But thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's been fascinating
From:
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It depends on how it's done and who does it...
Basically, as an architect you get lots of buildings that really look the same as each other, and quite often I found at uni that I only really gor pissed off at plagiarism if they copied my ideas, my scheme and then got better marks (yes it did happen once - a long time ago)...otherwise I generally didn't care. Quite often I was secretly chuffed.
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I also get that it depends on who does it and how it's done too. If it's done as a 'homage' or because someone's been inspired by something I wrote then I'm incredibly flattered. providing, of course, that there's that element of 'respect', as in acknowledging the source, giving credit where credit's due, actually having some consideration for me as a fellow human being, something often lacking from list interactions if flame wars are any indication :). If, on the other hand, someone ever came along and rewrote something of mine without any consideration of my feelings on the matter, whether they did it better or worse, I'd be livid because, to my mind at least, that's just rude.
But I completely understand how someone building off your hard work and then getting better marks for it would piss you off. I mean, that's simply not on!
Thanks for your perspective :)
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thanks for the hugs...i've kinda gotten over it, but you can't help but wonder as you write and correct stories 'am i doing it? even unconsciously? is it wrong? should i work harder to differenciate my chars from others?'
reading your bit about pissy daniel, ect, i tried to think how i characterize my daniel. of all the characters i write, my portrayal of D has gotten me the most positive feedback. but i honestly can explain how i approach daniel.
hmmm, interesting questions. may have to think about it and come back to it.
nothing like a bit of navel gazing on a sunday morning, is there??