![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Apart from the squee - and, man, there was a lot of squee! Can I just say how much I adore Rodney? And Teyla? And Sheppard, even when he's being a bit of a prat? And Weir... hmmm... will put behind spoilers cut - I had some thoughts. Some metaish thoughts. And they are chock full of spoilery goodness, so are also going behind an lj-cut.
I think that the Ancients built the nanovirus. In fact, I'm convinced of it. After all, the only thing we have to suggest that there is a third race, who may have made it, is Carson's projecting that the Ancients were actually benevolent and wise and good.
I am far from convinced that that's actually the case. The Ancients, as a race, have made me feel incredibly twitchy ever since we first encountered Oma Desala.
First of all, why do I think the Ancients made the nanovirus, or were at the bare minimum, complicit in its making?
i) it was found in an Ancient's lab. Okay, not damning. It could have been made by someone else, and they were working on a cure. Possibly. Although why, given that they were battling desperately with the Wraith and all of their attention should have been focused on that, I don't know
ii) It kills the Wraith's food source
iii) it does not, however, kill anyone with the ATA gene.
I don't believe that that is a coincidence. The nanovirus was engineered - of course it was, they're tiny machines - and I find it completely implausible that an engineered virus coincidentally manages to spare those who possess the ATA gene. It's simply too statistically unlikely. There's been a theory that the ATA gene expresses itself as a series of proteins, and I suppose that these could possibly affect the operation of the nanoviruses, but the idea that it's just coincidental that this particular set of proteins affect them?
Don't buy it. The only way, to my mind, that that could have happened in machines like the nanoviruses is if it was programmed to happen. Everything else about those little buggers was deliberate, and I'm betting that was too. And if the Ancients themselves did not make it, then they were most certainly complicit in the making of them.
In terms of canon, why do I believe that the Ancients are capable of that kind of cold blooded calculation? Because I believe that canon has shown them to be.
Look at it this way - they're meddlers. All of the 'elder' races, bar the Nox, have been shown as meddlers. The Nox are merely annoyingly superior, but the Asgard have taken cloning to the point that it's not actually sustainable for them anymore. Their cells have degraded too much, and they're forced to seek out frozen samples from millenia ago to solve the problem. And the reason for cloning is a type of immortality - imprinting personalities on new clones so that the personality can live forever.
The Ancients ascended, and there's now canon evidence that they didn't 'reach' that stage, they engineered it. Again, it's a type of immortality. And in doing so they imprisoned that dark creature for millenia, simply because they could. Regardless of what you think about it being the equivalent of a great white, that's just not right. There was evidence to suggest that it was semi-sentient, like it figuring out that the humans were tricking it with the switching of reactors around. I'm not going to get into an argument about animal vivisection, but it's interesting that a so called superior race of beings still practices it if their own survival is at stake. That's one thing the Nox don't do. It suggests a certain amount of... cold bloodedness about 'lower orders'.
The Nox have done the same re: immortality, with their powers to heal. Anyone want to guess whether that was natural, or something that they, too, had been working towards?
It all comes to the same thing - survival at all costs.
Kind of like the Goa'uld, huh? And speaking of the Goa'uld, what about the sarcophagus, and the healing device? Not to mention the ribbon device? The Goa'uld don't make technology - they scavenge it and appropriate it. Wonder where they got it?
And look at the Ancients' track record. They seeded worlds with humans. Why? I suspect it was a god complex. Really, I do. I think the Ancients were arrogant, condescending and viewed us as little more than entertaining chimps. They seem to be showing the same attitude over and over again now that they've ascended - interfering when it suits their purposes, and ignoring us and taking the moral high ground when it doesn't.
I don't think they have the humans' best interests at heart at all. I never have. They're too... smooth, slick, evasive, from what we've seen of them. They seeded worlds with little mini-mes, but they weren't really the same. A lesser version, without the superiority complex and the ATA gene. And in doing so, they awoke the Wraith who, according to the pilot, 'descended on the human worlds like a scourge'.
And what did the Ancients do?
They retreated to the safety of their city, and left the humans to it, while they hid behind their shield. And since they'd already abandoned Earth, because of the plague (and anyone want to guess that maybe that was a bit of genetic engineering gone awry?), which, coincidentally, left the humans there to their fate (since it killed them too), they worked on ascending as a way of getting out of the mess that they'd got themselves into. And when they finally solved that issue, they left the humans to their fate - the Wraith - while they sod off being mystical and stuff.
But not without still interfering.
In short, I'm not convinced that the Ancients were the good guys. I'm not convinced at all.
I also wondered about the Ancient technology and the need to use the ATA gene. The theory put forth on the show was that their technology had been designed to only operate with the ATA gene to stop the Wraith from using it. I do wonder, however, whether it was also to stop the inferior human race from using it. Sort of the ultimate class system.
You can use the gate, because we need to allow our pets to move around, but you don't get to play with any of the big toys.
And why do some humans have the ATA gene? Yeah... kind of worrying, isn't it? Suggests that there are some Ancients who were not averse to slumming it, as it were.
Which puts John's ancestry into perspective, doesn't it?
I just get that vibe from them, so, yes, I can well believe that the Ancients would be willing to bump off the humans in order to get rid of the Wraith. It seems to be keeping in character for them - leaving their messes behind and screw anyone who isn't us or one of the 'elder' races. After all, if the cure for AIDs was found tomorrow, and it involved killing off all chimpanzees, what do we think would happen?
But the clincher, for me, is that I come back again and again to the same thought.
Why would any other race engineer a nanovirus that killed anyone without the ATA gene?
And onto squeeage.
Rodney was so fucking cool in this ep. If I wasn't already head over heels with him, and the actor that plays him, I would have fallen all over again. Mind you, I've been saying this after every episode since Hide and Seek so maybe you shouldn't take that as anything.
He was kickass and take charge and wonderfully vulnerable and human and connecting to his team and so The Man that it's perfectly obvious now (at least to me) that if Elizabeth is in charge of the overall expedition, and John is in charge of military personnel, then Rodney is the man in charge of the scientists.
He was giving them orders - there was no doubting that - and they were obeying him. From the very first scene, even before the shit hit the fan, and he continued to give orders - and have them listened to - after that. And he didn't hesitate to call for an emergency lockdown, which showed a huge amount of foresight and spine, and contrasts interestingly enough with John's attitude. I'd love to say that I thought John's actions were about the fact that his lover was in peril, but I strongly suspect John's actions were more to do with the fact that Elizabeth's orders couldn't possibly apply to him.
Ford was a doll in this one, young and scared and impulsive and he is only 25, fcol. We forget that sometimes, but to me it explains both his attitude in this and in The Eye. And Carson was competent and sympathetic but thankfully didn't grab centre stage. I like him better when he's supporting and providing wry humour.
Teyla was kick ass. She kicked John's ass, both figuratively and literally. Loved the scene with the sticks. She was cool, calm and confident, and she took John down with no effort and then chastised him for not practicing. And it didn't come across as forced or 'we've got to stick this chick in a bikini and go for 'hot amazon'.
And then she told him, politely and in no uncertain terms, that he shouldn't have disregarded Elizabeth like that.
Which brings me onto my sticking point. Weir.
Now I like Weir. I think she's human and flawed and vulnerable and very out of her depth. So I foresaw this confrontation between Elizabeth and John coming from a mile off. But am I the only one who thinks that she brought it largely on herself?
She doesn't see John as a subordinate. She's been using him as a confidante, someone to shore her up when she's feeling vulnerable, and in doing so she's shown him her belly.
She's deferred to him on more than one occasion, has given him his head, and, even worse, has left decisions that she doesn't want to make to him, like the Hoffans and their use of Steve, and the trading of information and explosives to the Genii, both of which were very bad decisions. Which isn't entirely John's fault, but it does demonstrate a) John's tendency to rush into things and b) Elizabeth's inability or unwillingness to stop him.
She's out of her depth, and it shows, to be blunt. And worse, she's abrogated responsibility to him on more than one occasion, and therefore, while John shouldn't have done what he did, he's seen the side of Elizabeth that no one else has - the vacillitating side. The indecisive side. The 'weak' side. If you hand someone that power - if you place that burden on them because you can't or don't want to deal with it - you can hardly bitch when it backfires on you.
The confrontation was inevitable. She's simply not strong enough to rein him in. And given that, it's hardly surprising that this man - this man who she has been warned, in advance, will disobey orders if he disagrees with them and yet who she has still deferred to in situations where she doesn't want to deal and in fact has told him she doesn't want to deal - disobeys her. And is wrong again.
She should have been strong. She shouldn't have needed Teyla to kick his ass - she should have done it herself. She should have refused to power up the section so that John could get into it. She should have told him to wait there, and see if Petersen forced the doors and got himself out of the quarantined area, and then told him to deal with it. And if he wouldn't, she should have told Teyla, as the woman on the spot, to take him down.
I bet Teyla would have done it too.
By doing refusing to give into him again, she risked him ordering Bates to override her again, but by giving into him again, she lost control of the situation, and nothing in their little conversation at the end has resolved that.
In fact, I think she lost control of the situation weeks ago, and I'm not convinced that she can get it back.
It's an interesting dynamic, and it makes for an interesting tension and interesting characters, but it makes Elizabeth a poor leader, imho.
I think that the Ancients built the nanovirus. In fact, I'm convinced of it. After all, the only thing we have to suggest that there is a third race, who may have made it, is Carson's projecting that the Ancients were actually benevolent and wise and good.
I am far from convinced that that's actually the case. The Ancients, as a race, have made me feel incredibly twitchy ever since we first encountered Oma Desala.
First of all, why do I think the Ancients made the nanovirus, or were at the bare minimum, complicit in its making?
i) it was found in an Ancient's lab. Okay, not damning. It could have been made by someone else, and they were working on a cure. Possibly. Although why, given that they were battling desperately with the Wraith and all of their attention should have been focused on that, I don't know
ii) It kills the Wraith's food source
iii) it does not, however, kill anyone with the ATA gene.
I don't believe that that is a coincidence. The nanovirus was engineered - of course it was, they're tiny machines - and I find it completely implausible that an engineered virus coincidentally manages to spare those who possess the ATA gene. It's simply too statistically unlikely. There's been a theory that the ATA gene expresses itself as a series of proteins, and I suppose that these could possibly affect the operation of the nanoviruses, but the idea that it's just coincidental that this particular set of proteins affect them?
Don't buy it. The only way, to my mind, that that could have happened in machines like the nanoviruses is if it was programmed to happen. Everything else about those little buggers was deliberate, and I'm betting that was too. And if the Ancients themselves did not make it, then they were most certainly complicit in the making of them.
In terms of canon, why do I believe that the Ancients are capable of that kind of cold blooded calculation? Because I believe that canon has shown them to be.
Look at it this way - they're meddlers. All of the 'elder' races, bar the Nox, have been shown as meddlers. The Nox are merely annoyingly superior, but the Asgard have taken cloning to the point that it's not actually sustainable for them anymore. Their cells have degraded too much, and they're forced to seek out frozen samples from millenia ago to solve the problem. And the reason for cloning is a type of immortality - imprinting personalities on new clones so that the personality can live forever.
The Ancients ascended, and there's now canon evidence that they didn't 'reach' that stage, they engineered it. Again, it's a type of immortality. And in doing so they imprisoned that dark creature for millenia, simply because they could. Regardless of what you think about it being the equivalent of a great white, that's just not right. There was evidence to suggest that it was semi-sentient, like it figuring out that the humans were tricking it with the switching of reactors around. I'm not going to get into an argument about animal vivisection, but it's interesting that a so called superior race of beings still practices it if their own survival is at stake. That's one thing the Nox don't do. It suggests a certain amount of... cold bloodedness about 'lower orders'.
The Nox have done the same re: immortality, with their powers to heal. Anyone want to guess whether that was natural, or something that they, too, had been working towards?
It all comes to the same thing - survival at all costs.
Kind of like the Goa'uld, huh? And speaking of the Goa'uld, what about the sarcophagus, and the healing device? Not to mention the ribbon device? The Goa'uld don't make technology - they scavenge it and appropriate it. Wonder where they got it?
And look at the Ancients' track record. They seeded worlds with humans. Why? I suspect it was a god complex. Really, I do. I think the Ancients were arrogant, condescending and viewed us as little more than entertaining chimps. They seem to be showing the same attitude over and over again now that they've ascended - interfering when it suits their purposes, and ignoring us and taking the moral high ground when it doesn't.
I don't think they have the humans' best interests at heart at all. I never have. They're too... smooth, slick, evasive, from what we've seen of them. They seeded worlds with little mini-mes, but they weren't really the same. A lesser version, without the superiority complex and the ATA gene. And in doing so, they awoke the Wraith who, according to the pilot, 'descended on the human worlds like a scourge'.
And what did the Ancients do?
They retreated to the safety of their city, and left the humans to it, while they hid behind their shield. And since they'd already abandoned Earth, because of the plague (and anyone want to guess that maybe that was a bit of genetic engineering gone awry?), which, coincidentally, left the humans there to their fate (since it killed them too), they worked on ascending as a way of getting out of the mess that they'd got themselves into. And when they finally solved that issue, they left the humans to their fate - the Wraith - while they sod off being mystical and stuff.
But not without still interfering.
In short, I'm not convinced that the Ancients were the good guys. I'm not convinced at all.
I also wondered about the Ancient technology and the need to use the ATA gene. The theory put forth on the show was that their technology had been designed to only operate with the ATA gene to stop the Wraith from using it. I do wonder, however, whether it was also to stop the inferior human race from using it. Sort of the ultimate class system.
You can use the gate, because we need to allow our pets to move around, but you don't get to play with any of the big toys.
And why do some humans have the ATA gene? Yeah... kind of worrying, isn't it? Suggests that there are some Ancients who were not averse to slumming it, as it were.
Which puts John's ancestry into perspective, doesn't it?
I just get that vibe from them, so, yes, I can well believe that the Ancients would be willing to bump off the humans in order to get rid of the Wraith. It seems to be keeping in character for them - leaving their messes behind and screw anyone who isn't us or one of the 'elder' races. After all, if the cure for AIDs was found tomorrow, and it involved killing off all chimpanzees, what do we think would happen?
But the clincher, for me, is that I come back again and again to the same thought.
Why would any other race engineer a nanovirus that killed anyone without the ATA gene?
And onto squeeage.
Rodney was so fucking cool in this ep. If I wasn't already head over heels with him, and the actor that plays him, I would have fallen all over again. Mind you, I've been saying this after every episode since Hide and Seek so maybe you shouldn't take that as anything.
He was kickass and take charge and wonderfully vulnerable and human and connecting to his team and so The Man that it's perfectly obvious now (at least to me) that if Elizabeth is in charge of the overall expedition, and John is in charge of military personnel, then Rodney is the man in charge of the scientists.
He was giving them orders - there was no doubting that - and they were obeying him. From the very first scene, even before the shit hit the fan, and he continued to give orders - and have them listened to - after that. And he didn't hesitate to call for an emergency lockdown, which showed a huge amount of foresight and spine, and contrasts interestingly enough with John's attitude. I'd love to say that I thought John's actions were about the fact that his lover was in peril, but I strongly suspect John's actions were more to do with the fact that Elizabeth's orders couldn't possibly apply to him.
Ford was a doll in this one, young and scared and impulsive and he is only 25, fcol. We forget that sometimes, but to me it explains both his attitude in this and in The Eye. And Carson was competent and sympathetic but thankfully didn't grab centre stage. I like him better when he's supporting and providing wry humour.
Teyla was kick ass. She kicked John's ass, both figuratively and literally. Loved the scene with the sticks. She was cool, calm and confident, and she took John down with no effort and then chastised him for not practicing. And it didn't come across as forced or 'we've got to stick this chick in a bikini and go for 'hot amazon'.
And then she told him, politely and in no uncertain terms, that he shouldn't have disregarded Elizabeth like that.
Which brings me onto my sticking point. Weir.
Now I like Weir. I think she's human and flawed and vulnerable and very out of her depth. So I foresaw this confrontation between Elizabeth and John coming from a mile off. But am I the only one who thinks that she brought it largely on herself?
She doesn't see John as a subordinate. She's been using him as a confidante, someone to shore her up when she's feeling vulnerable, and in doing so she's shown him her belly.
She's deferred to him on more than one occasion, has given him his head, and, even worse, has left decisions that she doesn't want to make to him, like the Hoffans and their use of Steve, and the trading of information and explosives to the Genii, both of which were very bad decisions. Which isn't entirely John's fault, but it does demonstrate a) John's tendency to rush into things and b) Elizabeth's inability or unwillingness to stop him.
She's out of her depth, and it shows, to be blunt. And worse, she's abrogated responsibility to him on more than one occasion, and therefore, while John shouldn't have done what he did, he's seen the side of Elizabeth that no one else has - the vacillitating side. The indecisive side. The 'weak' side. If you hand someone that power - if you place that burden on them because you can't or don't want to deal with it - you can hardly bitch when it backfires on you.
The confrontation was inevitable. She's simply not strong enough to rein him in. And given that, it's hardly surprising that this man - this man who she has been warned, in advance, will disobey orders if he disagrees with them and yet who she has still deferred to in situations where she doesn't want to deal and in fact has told him she doesn't want to deal - disobeys her. And is wrong again.
She should have been strong. She shouldn't have needed Teyla to kick his ass - she should have done it herself. She should have refused to power up the section so that John could get into it. She should have told him to wait there, and see if Petersen forced the doors and got himself out of the quarantined area, and then told him to deal with it. And if he wouldn't, she should have told Teyla, as the woman on the spot, to take him down.
I bet Teyla would have done it too.
By doing refusing to give into him again, she risked him ordering Bates to override her again, but by giving into him again, she lost control of the situation, and nothing in their little conversation at the end has resolved that.
In fact, I think she lost control of the situation weeks ago, and I'm not convinced that she can get it back.
It's an interesting dynamic, and it makes for an interesting tension and interesting characters, but it makes Elizabeth a poor leader, imho.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
From:
no subject
And it does put the humans with the gene into perspective, and does a nifty job of working in the whole Sons of God and Daughters of Man thing from the Bible, too. Heh. Not a bad little thing, really, and nicely woven.
It remains to be seen if the writers on the show are deep enough to play with that, so we shall see.
Rodney was totally the man. John was bad and busted, and I think there are going to be real problems upcoming. As much as I like John, I'm foreseeing some problems if he continues to be written this way. Snarky is good, snippy and defensive and sure his way is right is less good. Ford already lost points with me because of the whole 'beat up guys like you' comment, even though I think Rainbow is just as cute as the dickens.
Teyla just plain rocked. I like her so much and I'm liking her more and more and more.
Elizabeth. Not so much. Her whole hesitation when John asks her Peterson's location was very unleaderlike and more like....pissed off and sulky.
From:
no subject
From:
no subject
I checked on Gateworld, and it's Ascension. The site says:
Orlin tells her that Velona was under attack by the Goa'uld, and that he showed the people there how to construct the highly-advanced weapon to defend themselves -- a violation of one of his people's highest laws. But after the Goa'uld were repelled, the people began to plan the conquest of other worlds. The others of Orlin's kind came and wiped them out to "correct" Orlin's mistake -- sentencing him to live alone on the desolated planet.
Wiped them out. All of them. Didn't just destroy the weapon, or destroy the people in power; they actually killed every man, woman and child on the planet to correct Orlin's 'mistake'.
That speaks of both incredible arrogance and disregard for human lives. And of a people who are most certainly not 'good'.
From:
no subject
Weir came across very weak and I agree she's been setting herself up for it all along. Her authority is now completely trashed and even Sheppard standing in front of everyone and saying he was wrong would not change things. Which he wouldn't do because he believes he was right. Bates scared me, I flashed back to a misogynistic military guy I once worked with. He's trouble.
Loved the fight scene w/Teyla. Loved Rodney's "death-bed" moments. And Zelenka for playing along with him. Hee.
Hope they brought alot of those reactors with them. What's that, the third one they've lost?
Mmmmmm... Rodney McKay, Superhero. Yum.
From:
no subject
I'm completely with you on the Ancients and the virus. I think they made it, but I also think it was a rogue group within the Ancients. My thinking goes something like this: Rogue group proposes killing the humans as a way of stopping the Wraith and is shot down. The Ancients may not regard humans as being as valuable as the Ancients themselves, but they aren't willing to engage in genocide. Rogue group goes off and develops the virueses anyway.
Also, it's interesting that the lab database isn't connected to the Ancient mainframe.
I can't see the Ancients as a unified group. Societies just don't work that way. But I can be convinced that the majority saw humans as completely disposable, and there was a struggling minority arguing against genocide.
Ah, Weir. I see where you are coming from, but I don't completely agree.
All leaders need someone to confide, someone they can trust absolutely, show their indecision to, and bounce ideas off of. Elizabeth chose wrong when she chose John to be that person.
Yes, she had been warned that he was diposed to haring off on his own and disobeying orders, but John can be damned approachable and easy to trust. And he had good reasons for questioning some of his previous superiors' orders. Not thinking that that means he'll question *your* orders is foolish, but human. I can understand it.
I don't think she left the decision about Steve and the Hoffans up to John. He put forth his case; she considered and relented. The same, but to a lesser degree, with the Genii. She decided, but he had already set up situations in which her choices were limited. She should have called him on it earlier. I think they're all still finding the lines, figuring out how much authority a team leader has, and she let John have too much.
The key error though, in my opinion, is still John's. You don't question your superiors in front of other people. Argue with them all you want behind closed doors, but when you're facing everyone else you give them your complete support. It's part of being a good leader, and any resulting fallout is as much, or more John's responsibility as it is hers.
I think there is an argument to be made that she should have kept the power off to the section Peterson was in, or ordered Teyla to take John out. But she couldn't risk another confrontation she might lose.
However, when it was clear John had fucked up, badly, she made that clear not just to John, but to everyone in the control room. I still think that was a good move on her part. Next time, Bates, do what I tell you to do.
Elizabeth needs to reach out to Teyla. She could have a valuable friend and ally there, someone who is capable of filling the confidant role, if only Weir could see it.
It's an interesting dynamic, and it makes for an interesting tension and interesting characters,
Oh, yeah.
From:
no subject
I think you might be onto something here, but in my mind that's still 'The Ancients'. No, they aren't a homogenous group, but I still think it was some flavour of Ancient rather than a mysterious 'third race'. It just makes more sense to me.
Also, it makes me wonder just how big Atlantis really is. I know you see shots of it, but there's no scale to compare it with (since it's in the middle of the ocean). I'm thinking it's got to be several miles across at least, right? Not least so that you can actually have hidden conspiracies :)
Elizabeth chose wrong when she chose John to be that person.
But it's not just that Elizabeth confides in John - it's that she defers to him for the decisions she doesn't want to make. I see the scene about the Hoffans and Steve differently than you do. To me the fact that she says, 'I never expected to have to make a decision like this' or words to that effect, then looks at John, then says 'Do it'... the whole thing didn't ring to me like Elizabeth making the decision. Maybe that was just the way that Torri played it, but to me it came across more like ask than tell, and the fact that she confessed she was out of her depth... it just rang wrong with me.
I thought it was a major mistake, and it wasn't the first or last time.
Elizabeth, to me, is not coming across as a strong leader at all. She's coming across as a weak one. The only time I've seen her showing much spine was when she faced off with Kavanagh. It's the only time I've bought that she had the steel to carry out her threat.
Every other time, I've had this little twitchy feeling that if John doesn't back her, she's screwed. And her powerbase shouldn't rest on John's whim.
The key error though, in my opinion, is still John's.
Yes, it is. It really is. He shouldn't have done what he did, shouldn't have questioned her or ordered Bates to open the door. There's no question of that.
But the fact of the matter is that Bates did open the door. So I wonder just how many people share the feeling that Weir isn't a sufficiently strong leader. Did Bates only open the door because John told him too, countermanding a direct order from Weir, because John's military? Bates has never had much time for John. I suspect that if he hadn't thought that Weir was the weaker of the two, he wouldn't have.
I may be wrong, but I'm still struck by the fact that in my opinion Weir is simply not strong enough (at the moment) to lead Atlantis. How much of that is to do with the character, and how much is to do with what the actress brings to the role, I'm not sure.
She doesn't have presence, except in that scene with Kavanagh.
I also wonder, characterwise, if she's ever been in that situation before, responsible for the lives of many people. Perhaps, as a negotiator, but I bet it was at one remove. This whole situation has an immediacy that is alien to her. It's being faced with the actuality rather than the theory.
I'm going to have to post this in two halves :)
From:
no subject
I think you're right that she was taken in by John's charm. John is a nice guy - but he's arrogant on occasion, has an inability to see his own flaws and is too cocky by half.
You know, when I saw the pilot I thought that Rodney was going to be her confidante, with that little exchange in front of the gate, where he rather awkwardly told her that she'd done the right thing. Rodney would have been the far better choice, because Rodney isn't about powerstruggles in the way that it's going on between Weir and Sheppard. He's arrogant in his own way too, but he's interested in the science, not the 'who runs things'.
And there was that little sympatico moment when he reached out in spite of himself.
I hope they resolve it. I really do. I just don't know how they can.
Elizabeth needs to reach out to Teyla. She could have a valuable friend and ally there, someone who is capable of filling the confidant role, if only Weir could see it.
Yes, she would be perfect, but I wonder if her 'alienness' is putting Weir off? I don't mean that in a racist/speciest sense, but in the sense that she's not quite trusted because they still don't know what the Athosians are capable of, and they still don't know what drives them as a people. I would have hoped they were beyond that after Suspicion but I'm not so sure.
And, of course, femmeslash :)
From:
no subject
That actually made sense to me, once they realised that it wasn't your normal, run of the mill infection. Too precise, too focused and targetted.
I don't think Carson could see that, because he's not used to seeing patterns like that in his field of work.
Rodney, on the other hand, is.
Her authority is now completely trashed and even Sheppard standing in front of everyone and saying he was wrong would not change things. Which he wouldn't do because he believes he was right.
Yep, that's the worrying thing. John is so convinced that he's right that he's never going to admit that he's wrong. He's too cocky and I suspect his pride will get in the way.
He's far from perfect, and the flaws in his character actually make him interesting, even if they're rather selfish and self-centred ones. And undermining the authority of your commanding officer like that is certainly selfish and to the detriment of the good of Atlantis.
I can see why they exiled him to McMurdo.
From:
no subject
I agree, and I'm actually quite worried about it. I like both Sheppard and Weir, and I can't foresee a conclusion that isn't going to reflect badly on one or the other of them.
Either Sheppard has to do some growing up and lose the lone wolf act, or Elizabeth has to grow a spine and throw him in the brig.
Ford already lost points with me because of the whole 'beat up guys like you' comment.
I saw that more as him feeling under pressure because he's being mocked. It's not nice to be made to feel stupid, and that's what Rodney and Zelenka were doing, whether they meant to or not (and I suspect that on some level at least they meant to).
Which suggests that not everything is rosy between the military and civilian components on Atlantis. I wonder how many of the civilians shared Kavanagh's view that Atlantis was a way of escaping the militaristic aspect of the SGC, and how many military personnel resent the assumption that they're just dumb grunts there to take a bullet for the geeks?
It's another interesting aspect, and one I hope they explore.
Elizabeth. Not so much. Her whole hesitation when John asks her Peterson's location was very unleaderlike and more like....pissed off and sulky.
Yeah. I thought that too. I mean she was understandably hurt, but I didn't get the impression from Torri's performance of that scene that she was weighing up her options and deciding the best course of action so much as, as you say, sulking.
Which made her weaker still in my eyes.
From:
no subject
I agree. I find the possiblities of the internal Ancient politics interesting. Who knew about these viruses and ordered or didn't order their creation?
Also, it makes me wonder just how big Atlantis really is.
Me, too.
'I never expected to have to make a decision like this' or words to that effect, then looks at John, then says 'Do it'... the whole thing didn't ring to me like Elizabeth making the decision. Maybe that was just the way that Torri played it, but to me it came across more like ask than tell, and the fact that she confessed she was out of her depth... it just rang wrong with me.
Hmmm. I don't have that ep on tape. Maybe I'll download it so I can watch it again.
Every other time, I've had this little twitchy feeling that if John doesn't back her, she's screwed. And her powerbase shouldn't rest on John's whim.
I agree. She needs to establish her own authority, and she needs people she can rely upon. She may have invested too much in John. I wonder, though, if Atlantis might be splitting on civilian/military lines with the civilians more likely to follow Elizabeth and the military more likely to follow John.
You're right about her interaction with Cavanaugh, and it wouldn't surprise me if she's more comfortable dealing with the scientists than the military. She also wouldn't be the first civilian leader to defer a little readily to the military. She also caves a bit to easily to that Sargeant in "Suspicion" IMO. It may be less a defering to John thing than a defering to the military thing.
Did Bates only open the door because John told him too, countermanding a direct order from Weir, because John's military? Bates has never had much time for John. I suspect that if he hadn't thought that Weir was the weaker of the two, he wouldn't have.
Good question. I'm honestly not sure. Although there is a tradition in the US military, and probably in other militaries as well, of soldiers favoring military over civilian authority, even though they swear an oath to uphold the civilian government.
I also wonder, characterwise, if she's ever been in that situation before
I agree. Being a negotiator and being in command are two very different things. It's easy to look at the job of being in charge and think 'I could do that' especially if you're smart, but that doesn't mean you can do it.
Also, even if she's lead a small group, leading a small group in which people's loyalty often rests on their direct experience of working with you, side by side, and leading a large, diverse group like Atlantis are extremely different. While good at the former, John, too, would not be good at the latter, IMO.
On too part two.
From:
no subject
/nods/ Which is fascinating, and makes for such an interesting contrast with Rodney, who, while equally arrogant, is far more aware of his own weaknesses, including his arrogance. Being with him is going to be good for John.
John is absolutely convinced that his plan is the best plan, and I think he's spent too much of his life relying on his looks and charm to get him out of his fuck-ups.
Also, though, I think he hates being helpless. He doesn't have the patience to stand by and let others handle things, except interestingly Rodney. Which weakens him as a leader, because sometimes you have to let others handle things. Delegation is not John's strong point.
Rodney would have been the far better choice, because Rodney isn't about powerstruggles in the way that it's going on between Weir and Sheppard. He's arrogant in his own way too, but he's interested in the science, not the 'who runs things'.
All true, but Rodney isn't that interested in the kinds of problems Elizabeth is facing, either. He doesn't care about the ethical dilemmas of experimenting on a sentient being or trading weaponry. He's happy to build the weapon, because that's science and engineering and fun and he's been able to do it since he was 12, but the ethics...
Also, he's not big with the people knowledge so negotiating the tensions and subtleties inherent in a group like this would not be his strength.
Although I do think him leading the scientists is damn cool. And he has Zelenka backing him up.
Yes, she would be perfect, but I wonder if her 'alienness' is putting Weir off? I don't mean that in a racist/speciest sense, but in the sense that she's not quite trusted because they still don't know what the Athosians are capable of, and they still don't know what drives them as a people. I would have hoped they were beyond that after Suspicion but I'm not so sure.
I do think there might be some racism there, or maybe some sexism. Women are just as conditioned to see men as leaders and as stronger as men are. Being a woman and undoubtedly a feminist doesn't exempt Weir from being sexist.
And, of course, femmeslash
Oh, yeah. Selenay has written a couple of nice Teyla/Weir pre-slash pieces if you're interested.
From: (Anonymous)
Use of one of your icons
I'm "dropping you a line"(like it said to on your other website) and telling you that I'd like to use on of your livejournal icons.
I won't be using it in a livejournal, its acctually in a weblog. I hope that's OK!
-B
From:
Re: Use of one of your icons
From:
no subject
Yep. And yet apparently keeps screwing up, which means no one has hit him with a big enough clue stick to teach him that his way is not always the best way.
All true, but Rodney isn't that interested in the kinds of problems Elizabeth is facing, either. He doesn't care about the ethical dilemmas of experimenting on a sentient being or trading weaponry. He's happy to build the weapon, because that's science and engineering and fun and he's been able to do it since he was 12, but the ethics...
Also true, but Rodney at least would try to listen. He wouldn't always be good at it, but he would try because he tries for Elizabeth.
And really, Elizabeth doesn't need anyone to do more than listen to her, make sounds in the appropriate places and give her a hug when she's scared. She definitely doesn't need someone to tell her what to do.
Or rather, her personality seems to be shaping up to be of someone who needs someone to tell her what to do when she doesn't want to make a decision herself, but in her capacity as leader that's the last thing she needs.
You could argue that Rodney would be good for her in that respect to. He'd listen to her, but he wouldn't tell her what to do. Would, in fact, tell her with varying degrees of pissyness and snarkiness, depending on how much pressure she was putting on him, that he's not going to.
John gives Elizabeth the answers. He steps in when she doesn't want to. And I still think that she's relied on that in a lot of situations, hence the current mess.
It's of both their makings, given their personality types as demonstrated so far.
I'm just left with this impression of Elizabeth being a weak leader and John being able to exploit that, neither of which is good for Atlantis as a whole.
Selenay has written a couple of nice Teyla/Weir pre-slash pieces if you're interested.
I've read them :) but thanks for the heads up.
From:
no subject
I've added you to my friends list and hope that we can get to know eachother better.And here's a little banner I made. Take care and looking forward to reading your thoughts on many other things that crop up on Stargate.
From:
Good icons!
From:
no subject
From:
Re: Good icons!
From:
Icons