Random musings

[alyse]

I've been thinking about the way we view NP slash fiction, and how we console ourselves with the thought that, on average, it's good and consistently so.

And I was wondering... since we're such a small fandom, with few writers, doesn't that mean that somehow we've imposed 'our' view of 'good' on the fandom (and I'm using a generic 'our' rather than specific), and people from outside the fandom might not see it the same way? That they might have a different definition of what constitutes 'good'. In other words, all newbies who enter into the fandom are indoctrinated into the same thought processes, through the (one) slash list, the (one) chatroom and through AIM?

I'm not saying that people set out with an agenda (because thankfully there are very few who seem determined to impose their views on others and are usually ignored ::g::) or even do it deliberately or consciously but maybe this occuring by some odd form of osmosis. Assimilation, if you will, by Seven of Slash.

::shrug:: Just one of those stray, strange and random thoughts that occur to me in the shower. See, Munchie, it's not all nekkid Daniel. I do occasionally get philosophical ::g::

Comments

[brenk.livejournal.com]

Maybe we're deluding ourselves, yeah *g*. Although...

I remember browsing NP stories and vaguely dipping into other slash (X-files, Stargate, Muncle) around the time when I first had the idea of writing NP. I'd also read a *lot* of Pros slash. From the 'outside looking in', I was blown away by what was there. At the time, it was you, Jill, Lou I think, Chya, Claire and Munchie. Very different styles, both gen *and* slash, but there was nothing that gave me that 'this is really not worth reading' feeling I'd found everywhere else. Basically, everybody there at the time had skills with words, characterisation and visuals, imho.

Of course, I was also very quickly besotted with Sam and Chris, but I still credit myself with enough distance (and a little experience in seeing what constitutes solid crafstmanship where words are concerned) to know this was - for lack of another term - good. It wasn't *all* just personal taste. I think what also ran through my mind was also 'wow - these people are writers, not just fans' (which can be taken as condescending but was in fact admiration). I felt they'd used some of the lack of canon to really make the characters come alive as they never did in the series. I was hooked.

As time went on, though, other authors came along and some weren't quite as solid on a lot of levels (particularly gen, I'd say), although there were other newbies (I'm thinking Jen, Charlotte and Rod in particular) whose stuff is outstanding (again in my opinion).

On slash particularly, it helped to be steered either directly or by example - at least for me - I never even wanted to write it, but for NP slash the encouragement was there, unlike other fandoms where the gen vs. slash divide is such a heated issue. What's more, I found some Pros and other slash really irritating because it was so... flat and pointless and unbelievable (not to mention lousy grammar and zillions of typos). NP slash wasn't like that. I dunno if I believed in it because of the writing or what I saw in the series, but the stories certainly had a lot to do with it.

Others that have followed in NP(see above), writing what I think a fair few of us would call 'good' maybe also did so by example and admiration - I know Rod's said that was the case and that he was sucked in by 'Conversations'? On the other hand, maybe other people might have been put off by the feeling that there's a certain 'line to be followed'(which doesn't exist in other, bigger fandoms as you say)? I haven't seen any real evidence of this though - never seen anybody discouraging *anyone* from having a try at slash. Quite the contrary - Jan and Charlotte (and I) have said they'd never have imagined writing it but do. OK, I wasn't convinced about Elsa's shot at it, but that was because I don't think she was doing it for the right reasons, as I told her at the time.

On reflection, then, I confess my own view is probably coloured because writers whose stuff I respect and like constituted my introduction to it all. I probably sort of ignore stories and writers I like less after a brief skim these days and look forward to more things that suit my own taste from the others.

Would a newbie today think we're 'good'? I dunno. Good, as you say, depends on far too many things. I do persist in thinking, though, that a lot of 'our' (generic) slash *is* among the more technically and creatively sound that I've seen.

[luigifish.livejournal.com]

ROTFLOL Glad to know I'm not the only person who thinks in the shower. Plot bunnies, private rants, work probs, whatever. They all seem much clearer when thought about in the shower. And Paul can't figure out why I spend so long in there...*vbg*

Anyway, on to the debate at hand (wouldn't guess it's break time at work, would you *g*). I think if you are into any fanfic fandom, to a certain extent you see it through rose-tinted spectacles. I've read all the NPs slash stories, there are some I go back to, others I will probably never read again. But either way I can appreciate the writer's enthusiasm for the characters and the effort that has gone into the story, whether I think the writing style is good or not. I guess this is why my pet hate is stories where the characters don't (in my opinion) resemble the characters on the screen.

I've been reading a lot of JAG fic recently, both het and slash. Some of it is diabolical, some is outstanding, but the lists I tend to go back are the ones where the writers obviously care about what happens to the characters etc.

Following that thread through, I don't tend to read fanfic if I don't know who the characters are. Daft really as I'll happy pick up any book and try reading it whether it's good or bad. But that's the attraction of fanfiction for me - I watch a TV programme, I like the characters, I go looking for fic *g*

So, in short, I do think we are very lucky with the NPs slash fic we have but then I'm biased - I'm a NPs fan *vbg*

[alyse]

ROTFLOL Glad to know I'm not the only person who thinks in the shower.

Water is essential to good plot bunny musings. Bath, shower, whatever. It's that soothing feeling that just nutures those little suckers! I'm convinced of it.

To get to the matter in hand - yes, I think that there is a certain amount of looking through rose tinted glasses at the fandom and that's part, I think, of the way my nebulous thoughts were developing. I was also wondering if the size of the fandom had another effect.

In larger fandoms, like Stargate, there's a lot of crud. Law of averages I suppose. You have a large audience for fic, not all of whom are particularly discriminating, and therefore you get a large number of writers to feed the ravenous beastie ::g:: And I've seen stories that personally I didn't think were very good (and not so much in the way that I don't like the style as a very flat narrative and basic grammar errors) get 'Wonderful. Want more' feedback on list.

So... (bear with me because I said these were nebulous thoughts ::g::) maybe because we're a small fandom, with not a great history for feeding back, rather than having a ravenous beast bad stories sink without trace? Good stories sometimes sink without trace too. There's no encouragement of bad writers, no instant hit because the fandom is so small? And maybe there's another effect - so few writers and good stories has the effect of making bad stories stick out more?

Or, and this is one quite plausible reason that struck me, maybe we also help each other without even realising it. Sort of a feeding off each other process - not in a plagiarism or collaborative or conscious way, but more a 'strive to be at the top of our game' way. You know how if you put good footballers together in a team, they start playing better than they do individually because they're inspired? Maybe we do something like that. Because there are so few stories, we really make the ones we write a labour of love because the last story that was posted to the list by another writer was obviously one? I don't mean competitiveness, as in 'oh, I have to outdo her', but more a communal pride in our work that rubs off on one another, and makes us try just that little bit harder? And once you get into the habit of caring it's not one you can easily break. ::g::

Or I could be talking crap again. I do that a lot in case you hadn't noticed. ::g::

[brenk.livejournal.com]

YES! I wholeheartedly agree about the 'feeding off each other' process and the whole idea of reading something good - well researched, obviously, as you say, a labour of love. I do think it's inspiring to see good things and I also agree it's not 'I can do better' but 'I want to at least do all I can because XXX did'.

I also agree that this is a fandom where good and bad all sink without trace, which is not always an encouraging thing for people who thrive on feedback, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. Wonder why? Are we all too busy writing or reading to take the time for it? it's very hard sometimes, too, because a lot of the writers know each other, so it's not easy to tell somebody you like personally that their story is not up to scrach just as it's not exactly easy to tell somebody you don't get on with that something is excellent. However hard you try to avoid being personal in judging something, it's not easy.

Hey, we agree on some things Al! *vbg