Purple is this year's black.

[alyse]

I can't figure out whether the shine has gone off my infatuation with Stargate fanfiction or whether it's just the weather - that sort of dull, cold feeling I get at this time of year which makes it difficult to summon up any enthusiasm for anything beyond curling up on the couch next to the radiator with a blanket and a book. Anyway, there was a time, about a year ago, when I would try to read anything that came across the mailing lists. That sort of new bloom as it were. Now I find myself getting bored with stuff that isn't bad, per se, but lacks something. In other words, the stuff I would have classed as mediocre in the sense of being readable but not much more than that, and which 12 months ago I would have read, is no longer enough to hold my attention for two whole parts.

With the story that I'm reading (or trying to) at the moment I think the problem with the text is that it's flat and lifeless, to me at least. It's all about Jack and Daniel suffering angst post a mission, complete with nightmares etc (which is a fanon cliche, true enough, but that's a rant for another day), but instead of being angsty it's just... dull. It's all telling me what they're going through and never showing me, at least not in the kind of language which makes me appreciate the supposed suffering. Which led me to some strange thoughts.

I know that we, as writers, try to avoid what could be termed 'purple prose' but what do we actually mean by that? To my mind it's one of those things which is easily identified when it's used to excess, a bit like an ageing maiden aunt who insists on dressing in loads of frills. It's easy to spot when she flounces into the room and can't sit down because of them. However, isn't it just as bad to go too far the other way? No frills at all? How... dull.

My mum is sixty-four next week. She wears tops that are cut lower than I would be comfortable wearing. She has recently (since her 60th birthday) acquired a couple of tattoos. She dyes her hair blonde and it's cut in a short bob. She wears sexy dresses and high heels.

Sounds like a nightmare, right?

You could not be more wrong. She's got that thing that many people (me included) would kill for. It's called 'style'. She never, ever looks like mutton dressed as lamb. She never looks anything other than what she is - a mature, confident, stylish woman. The blonde rinse is subtle and suits her, she looks as good in slacks as she does in a dress, and her tops, spaghetti strapped though they are, are comfortable as well as stylish, for all that they're marketed for younger women. I simply cannot see her dressing the way that people who are her age are supposed to dress. Ever. Cloth hats? Tweed? Twinsets and pearls? Comfortable, shapeless trousers and jumpers? Shopping trolley? Please. She's sixty three. She's not old. ::g::

So who says you can't dress things up a little? Who says you always have to play it safe? Tack some frills on that top, damn it. Add a chain. Put a flower in your hair.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm all for spicing things up a little, throwing in a little colour, purple or not. Same with the fear of said - yes, it can be grating if 'said' is never used (as a recent discussion on one of the crit lists talked about) but isn't it just as bad if you go too far the other way?

He said, then she said, then that other person in the corner said, then Jack said and then Daniel said and then Al yawned and fell asleep with her face on the keyboard.

Variety. It's not just for salad bars. Yes, don't overdo the purple prose, don't overdo the avoidance of 'said' but for God's sake, splash some colour about. Just a little. Plant some damned flowers in your prose. Please? You might even like the results.

Vivo de la púrpura!

Comments

[tasha27.livejournal.com]

Here, here ... I like a little variety in the fic I read as well: in fact these days I'm so picky I hardly read anything.

It was your comment about "said" that really brought me on side :-) ... I have always wondered what was wrong with using other words as well. In fact I was taught at school that using the same word time after time was worse than using a few more interesting nouns/adjectives/verbs. There are some that just don't fit, but you can usually spot them when you cringe as you read them ::g::.

I always go by the cringe factor when writing - if I read it back and I wince then its time to rethink, if I don't shrink away then I'm usually quite happy with it. It is the same when reading things - if I cringe it's too much, if I don't then it's far more interesting as far as I'm concerned. There no point in having a wide vocabulary if you never get to use it ::g::.

[alyse]

There is one so called fanfic truism I read every so often that drives me nuts. 'Said is invisible.' Um... in whose reality? Because it's not invisible to me. If it stands out - and believe me if an author uses nothing but 'said' I notice - then it's not invisible. 'Said' stands out to me just as much as any other word when it's used inappropriately or repetitively. It might not be as glaring as 'bleating' or the like on one use, but it isn't invisible and it does grate on me when it's used to excess - just like everything else.

So, no, don't be afraid of using 'said', but don't be afraid of using other words instead either.

And I get what you say about the cringe factor. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut instinct - it's your story after all. Sometimes those risks pay off and sometimes they don't but better to take risks, surely, and run the risk of failure than always play it safe and end up with boring stories.

I should stop now, shouldn't I? Before I go off on another rant ::g::

[tasha27.livejournal.com]

(Been in a meeting all afternoon hence the lateness of the reply.)

Oh yeah, "said" is not invisible ... it's actually one of those words that I come to hate in some fics. It is like any other word if used without variety it becomes annoying. Often I find that people also just use "said" and fail to use any adverbs to give an insight into why or how the character is saying their line. Just because they said it doesn't mean they just said it, if you see what I mean ::g::.

Sometimes those risks pay off and sometimes they don't but better to take risks, surely, and run the risk of failure than always play it safe and end up with boring stories.

I believe risks are part of the fun. :-) I think our moto should be - "Well at least no one could call us boring." ::g:: I suppose if you know you have a purple problem then it's good to be careful but everyone is allowed a fix every now and then. There are some words I will not exchange for others and there are some I will and if I stray into the ultraviolet then my beta readers usually pick it up ::g::.

"Said" is one I like to substitue -
Words I will use regularly : replied, responded, returned, mused, decided, mentioned, commented, remarked, muttered, babbled, hurried on, waxed lyrical, intoned (but only with gods and ghosts and spells) etc...

I try to use "said" sometimes, but I like variety and it doesn't always give the correct impression as far as I'm concerned. Purists are bound to disagree, but c'est moi :-).

[destina.livejournal.com]

Said is usually invisible when you are absorbed in a story. If you're not, it won't matter how many different kinds of words the writer uses. A bad story is still a bad story. *g*

[alyse]

But surely if it's a good story then all words should be equally invisible? In other words, you're not reading the words as single entities but being sucked into a tale where the words mesh together to form one wonderfully visual whole? Individual words aren't important because it's the whole that is, and the fact that the whole becomes important is a sign of choosing the individual words with care and weaving them together skillfully. That's probably a bit rambly ::g:: but I can't think of a better (or more appropriate :)) way of phrasing it.

And if that's the case, why single out 'said' as being invisible? To my mind and in my experience it's no more or less invisible than any other wholly appropriate word choice, and the whole 'invisible' concept is the summation of good writing rather than because someone used 'said'.

I think that yes, there is something to be said for not being afraid of using 'said' but that, like any idea, it can be carried to extremes until you become afraid of using anything but said. Moderation in all things including said.

But I agree with you about bad stories. It's just that, to me, stories that use 'said' to the exclusion of everything else, especially when the said isn't modified in anyway (as in, it's always 'said' and never said fast, said slowly, said with increasing irritation, softly, no indication at all of the mood of the person saying it) isn't a sign of good writing. It's a sign of flat writing. Especially if said is used when it doesn't need to be (i.e. every time someone speaks rather than, for example, leaving the speech itself as separate sentence, with no elaboration).

I think this is something we may have to agree to differ on :) I'm afraid that 'said is invisible' really is one of those things that bugs me every time I see it, maybe because it's never modified to say 'said is invisible if you use it appropriately and well' or 'said is invisible in good writing' but stated baldly as a fact (at least the times I've seen it :)). And I've lost count of the number of stories I've read where 'said', far from being invisible, has been so overused that it's leapt out and hit me around the head until I've been forced to plead into the ether for them to please find another word, any word. Just for variety and the sake of my sanity?

You know, I'd be tempted to issue a general challenge to write a fic without using the word 'said' but then I may end up with lots of dialogue only fics, like those Remma writes. Cute the first time, less so the 26th ::g::

Agreeing to disagree

[destina.livejournal.com]

But not before I fling some more opinions around! LOL! :-D

It's just that, to me, stories that use 'said' to the exclusion of everything else, especially when the said isn't modified in anyway (as in, it's always 'said' and never said fast, said slowly, said with increasing irritation, softly, no indication at all of the mood of the person saying it) isn't a sign of good writing. It's a sign of flat writing.

*considers* Hm. Modifying a verb isn't always the key to showing how a line is delivered. There should be visual cues as well. (This is an area where I think 99.9 percent of writers struggle.) There's nothing wrong with tacking on a modifier here and there, but when it becomes an entire story of said pretentiously, cackled viciously, snorted avariciously - any word but said + an adverb - the writer should be beaten over the head with her keyboard. As you said - moderation is key. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. *g*

You know, I'd be tempted to issue a general challenge to write a fic without using the word 'said' but then I may end up with lots of dialogue only fics, like those Remma writes.

Oh dear god. Please, no. *begs you* Then we'll have to suffer through horrors like Biblio's latest masterpiece of rampant adverb abuse. *shudders*

[jenniek45.livejournal.com]

Hurrah!! :)

And if I may venture an opinion, then I would agree with part of that general malaise being the time of year. Because I'm feeling exactly the same way - restless, unsatisfied with the lists/fic/life and everything in between - it's been ages since I read a fic and thought *wow*! Something to do with the cold, it being the new year, when everyone (imho) gets restless, wants new things, new experiences and is suddenly impatient with everything that's routine and predictable? I just hope it passes soon, cos it's starting to drive me nuts ;)

*hugs*

[alyse]

I suspect that's part of it. And I would give my... well, not first born but maybe some of this chocolate for a wow fic. Although I think widget285's PoV fic came close for pure entertainment factor ::g::

[estoile.livejournal.com]

Plant some damned flowers in your prose. Please? You might even like the results.

Beautiful. Well said (so to speak).

A good fic (in my experience) requires strong, clear characters. A good plot is important, of course, but even a great plot can't make up for bland characters. As a reader, I value details: setting, colour (and "Lex's lilac shirt" doesn't count), expression, posture -- and tone of voice. And none of that happens without description. Adjectives, verbs and adverbs are our friends.

Flat writing is about as enticing as flat Coke.

Thanks for this excellent analysis, Alyse.

[alyse]

Thank you :)

[barkley.livejournal.com]

I agree about the experimenting and the living a little. I disagree wholeheartedly with what you say about said. It's my favorite word, especially when not modified by adverbs every single time it's used.

As for the purple, I don't think all description is purple. In one of Keiko's stories, there a paragraph about the weather on the planet with lots of description in said paragraph. I think the description serves two purposes a) Word choice sets the mood. b) the paragraph is a metaphor for the main plot of the story. It's not excess. I think that's the difference between purple prose and image rich stories. The purple prose is extraneous. It doesn't need to be there for pacing, for mood setting, for whatever.

Eh, vanilla and chocolate. *g*

[alyse]

I disagree wholeheartedly with what you say about said.

Ah, but if everyone always agreed wouldn't the world be a very boring place? Every story would be the same... which makes me think of several fic lists ::veg::

As for the purple, I don't think all description is purple.

Nor do I ::g:: I was being slightly facetious, but I do think of description as being 'colour' and so I always think of a story devoid of any description as literally being 'colourless'. I suppose there's always a difference between an attractive shade of lilac and deep purple though, and I know which one I prefer, but I do think, which was what I was trying to convey, that a colourless story is at least as bad as one chock full of purple prose. Worse, in fact, because at least with purple prose there's a sense of OTTness about it, overblown as it is. A sense of fun I suppose, both in the ability to read it while giggling but also in the sense of the author having 'fun' in a way, whereas with one that avoids any purpleness at all to the extent of draining it of all colour and all life, it's just grey and dull and boring.

Moderation in all things. There's a path, as you say, between flat and lifeless and overblown stories so full of hyperbole and description that it's like wading through treacle. You call those stories that manage to walk that path 'image rich' stories, and I call them 'colourful'; same meaning, I suppose, just different ways of conveying the ideas. Which is what I was trying to rant about. Plant some flowers, yes, to give it some colour but avoid having an overgrown garden. True, there are degrees of colour in prose but the ones on the far edge I tend to think of as the fanfic equivalent of paisley ::g:: 'Dear God. What was she thinking when she put that on this morning.'

Unfortunately the story that sparked this particular train of thought was the fanfic equivalent of a grey smock, hence the tone of the rant. If I'd read one of the treacle ones and it had sparked the same train of though I'd probably have slanted the rant to say 'I'm all for description but please tone it down before the colours blind me.' ::g::

[destina.livejournal.com]

Purple prose and melodrama often go hand in hand, for me. It's not really about description - although that's sometimes a part of it. Tolkien wrote purple prose. Everything was Very Deep and Significant. *g* Shakespeare is purple. Hand-wringing, dramatic wailing, and things that are overdone make me smell the purple.

[alyse]

How do you feel about a nice, soothing shade of lilac? ::g::

I suppose it's all about moderation in all things but moderation does not equal abstinence.

Would that make the grey fic writers the equivalent of teetotallers? (Ignore me - my brain is getting very silly indeed. I think I need more diet coke before I start making any more silly comparisons.)

Two cents - non returnable.:-)

[munchkinott.livejournal.com]

What is my understanding, is there's two types of purple prose. There's the kind where the author has a definite knack for conveying the characters and the situations, with a lovely long bit of lyrical descriptiveness. Sort of like reading an oil painting. In short - yummy stuff.

And then there's 'purple prose' where an author has taken it upon themselves to grab hold of the language and wring it by the neck until it turns purple. :-)

As for the lack of fanfic 'said'. I know why I don't use it much. I does recall very vividly getting my knuckles rapped in school 'creative writing' (loose term, they gave you a topic, a shooting script and told you to make it as near to RL with a little imagination as possible) classes for using 'said'. Like using ';' more than once on a single sheet of A4.

And it's stuck. Plain and simple - s-t-u-c-k.
I use it occasionally, but given I'm one of those 'if dialogue isn't saying more than it's saying, don't bother with it' types - I find it difficult to have anyone who's just 'said' anything. If you get my drift?

End of waffle. :-)

As for New Year melancholy. Just think of it all as a big lilo of apathy in an ocean of mundanity. Won't help much snapping you out of it - but it's a damned relaxing thought and cheaper than 20 minutes in a floatation tank. *g*

Re: Two cents - non returnable.:-)

[alyse]

What is my understanding, is there's two types of purple prose. There's the kind where the author has a definite knack for conveying the characters and the situations, with a lovely long bit of lyrical descriptiveness. Sort of like reading an oil painting. In short - yummy stuff.

And then there's 'purple prose' where an author has taken it upon themselves to grab hold of the language and wring it by the neck until it turns purple. :-)

Yep, you see this is what I was getting at, but it appears that it's one of those sticky 'definition' things. There are those who use different definitions, as it appears Barkley and Destina do above :) where purple prose only applies to the overblown stuff and other phrases are used for the lovely lyrical stuff that falls into the 'good writing' category. Whereas I tend to think of any passage that comprises primarily of description without advancing the plot much per se as purple prose, but I don't automatically make the connection that purple prose = bad. I tend to think that overblown purple prose = bad. In some cases purely descriptive passages add colour to the plot, fleshing it out to make it real. World building in other words and I think that world building, and character insights, are important details when writing a good story. But I think of those kind of necessary passages as 'purple' simply because they add colour, not because they're overdone. Too much description, however, risks drowning the plot.

I wonder if the differences in thinking about these things is because of cultural differences (US vs UK) or whether we're just odd (well, we are but I meant odd in the same way about this particular issue ::g::)?

That was a purely rhetorical question btw ::g::

Re: Two cents - non returnable.:-)

[munchkinott.livejournal.com]

*puts hand in the air* Can't I just SEE two shades of purple instead?

Y'know, one's a tasteful aubergine colour - looks great on cars and woodwork and the other's some hideous neon throwback to the eighties? *g*

cool!

[athanata.livejournal.com]

hi! found your LJ while surfing around -- I LOVE your Stargate Mood Icons (especially the 'horny' one :)
where did you get them? anyway that i can use them for my LJ too?

Re: cool!

[alyse]

Thank you :) I'm glad you like them. I made them myself from scratch so unfortunately they're not for public use.

If you do want to create your own custom mood theme you can only do so if you have a paid LJ account and somewhere to store the images which allows remote linking. If you want more information about how to do that you need to read this FAQ and this guide which will tell you everything you need to know. I'd aim for making each mood image no more than 2 or 3k in size, simply because you don't want them to take forever to load. The smaller the better, especially when you think that loading your journal page or friends page will load quite a number of mood icons from various sources ::g::

Hope that's helpful :)